Assurance Feat

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Chilon
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Location: Solon, OH

Assurance Feat

Post by Chilon » Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:47 pm

"You can forgo rolling a skill check . . . to instead receive a result of 10 + your proficiency bonus (do not apply any other bonuses, penalties, or modifiers)." That means level plus 12 if trained, level plus 14 if master, level plus 16 if expert, level plus 18 if legendary--right? However, the simple DCs are 15, 20, 30, 40. That leaves a differential of 3, 6, 14, and 22, respectively. If we use Table 10-5: DCs by Level (pp. 503), the differentials are sometimes bigger, sometimes smaller, but never significantly different..

Presumably, simple DCs are the low point, so it seems like an assurance check can only succeed when attempting tasks beneath one's expertise. Am I missing something, or is this feat worthless?

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mikem91
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Re: Assurance Feat

Post by mikem91 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:03 pm

I've not seen a reason to take it yet.

Your level is part of your proficiency bonus if you're at least trained though, so it's a little better than you're portraying.
~~~
Mike 86997 ****

Code: Select all

Astrid Gaetki/Cleric2            Shiobhan Mac Lir/Bard2           Paul Meier/Ranger1
Gemma Wintrish/Wizard1
~~
Ragnar/Ftr1-Thf3                 Ursion Thrune/Cleric 14          Serit/Barbarian 11
Parashylara Snowspeaker/Bard 12  Aspexia Blakros/Arcanist 13      Evan Winterburn/Ranger 12  
Akari Yuka/Swashbuckler 9        Vuokko Lumimyrski/Witch 11       Isabeau Gaughan/Paladin 10       
Sofia Cisneros/Cleric 10         Sabriel Stonebrow/CORE Cleric 10 Adrian Delrosa/Wizard 8
Thrain Wolfpelt/CORE Fighter 2   Mitsuzuri Kaeda/Samurai 6        Amestri al-Xemestra/CORE Cleric 2
Berazni Morradi/Psychic 2        Ranna Ingvarsdottir/Bard 10      Jeshki Blackmantle/Arcanist 6
Dagmara Trzetrzelewska/Cleric 4  Yumiko Takada/Slayer 5
(as of 20190927)

Chilon
Posts: 1311
Joined: Tue May 26, 2015 7:50 pm
Location: Solon, OH

Re: Assurance Feat

Post by Chilon » Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:35 pm

mikem91 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:03 pm
I've not seen a reason to take it yet.

Your level is part of your proficiency bonus if you're at least trained though, so it's a little better than you're portraying.
That math was including level. That's why it's so worthless. A legendary PC would need to be level 22 to be assured of completing a legendary DC.

ewfisher99
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Re: Assurance Feat

Post by ewfisher99 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:17 am

It's just as you say. An assurance check can only succeed when attempting tasks beneath one's expertise. It's meant to remove dice from the equation when attempting tasks below one's proficiency level, not to make tasks at your proficiency level an auto-success. When you compare it to other skill feats of the same level, such as Steady Balance, I wouldn't say it's underpowered. Many of them are very situational, and Assurance can be used to do things like grapple someone with a low Fortitude DC with no chance of failure.
This is Evan.

ElishaK
Venture Lieutenant
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Re: Assurance Feat

Post by ElishaK » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:20 am

Just remember 1s always fail in p2. And this feat is to take away the potential of failing on simple things. Like the medicine skill check to treat wounds. Not to allow you to make a check that is hard to succeed at.
And also take note that if you're not at the skill level to make a legendary skill check you can not succeed at it.

I'd have to check again but I think take 10 and take 20 was taken out of p2.
Regular
14-Lady Majet,12-Zar, Blue, 11-Kamenwati, 10-Tim the Bardairan, Donald, 9-Marvin, Sir Chompey, Lord Tagore, 8-Okrin, Nár, Urah, 7-Sunaki, Zarph, 6- Terry, Some gm baby, 4-Mahershalalhashbaz 3-Michael, 2-Ghredrik, another work in progress,

GinoA
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Re: Assurance Feat

Post by GinoA » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:26 am

ElishaK wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:20 am
I'd have to check again but I think take 10 and take 20 was taken out of p2.
Yes, they were.

ElishaK
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Re: Assurance Feat

Post by ElishaK » Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:16 pm

GinoA wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:26 am
ElishaK wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:20 am
I'd have to check again but I think take 10 and take 20 was taken out of p2.
Yes, they were.
Then this feat allows you 10.
Regular
14-Lady Majet,12-Zar, Blue, 11-Kamenwati, 10-Tim the Bardairan, Donald, 9-Marvin, Sir Chompey, Lord Tagore, 8-Okrin, Nár, Urah, 7-Sunaki, Zarph, 6- Terry, Some gm baby, 4-Mahershalalhashbaz 3-Michael, 2-Ghredrik, another work in progress,

GinoA
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Re: Assurance Feat

Post by GinoA » Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:32 pm

ElishaK wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:16 pm
GinoA wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:26 am
ElishaK wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:20 am
I'd have to check again but I think take 10 and take 20 was taken out of p2.
Yes, they were.
Then this feat allows you 10.
Sort of.

Chilon
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Joined: Tue May 26, 2015 7:50 pm
Location: Solon, OH

Re: Assurance Feat

Post by Chilon » Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:27 pm

ElishaK wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:20 am
Just remember 1s always fail in p2 . . . . I'd have to check again but I think take 10 and take 20 was taken out of p2.
So Yo Yo Ma now has a 5% chance of failing when he practices the scales on his cello? Tom Brady has a 5% chance of missing his son while playing catch? LeBron James has a 5% chance of dropping the ball doing lay ups in practice?

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mikem91
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Re: Assurance Feat

Post by mikem91 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:12 pm

eh, maybe. if the referee makes them even roll for that. practically, a one "always fail", but that's not the wording. the wording is:

If you rolled a 20 on the die (a “natural 20”), your result
is one degree of success better than it would be by numbers
alone. If you roll a 1 on the d20 (a “natural 1”), your
result is one degree worse.
...
Likewise, if your modifier for
a statistic is so high that adding it to a 1 from your d20 roll
exceeds the DC by 10 or more, you can succeed even if you
roll a natural 1!

Also, you're talking trivial to do things. Which was a thing in the playtest. For incredibly easy things though, there is that recommended -10 DC modifier. The spirit of that trivial rule lives on in this passage:

When success isn’t certain—whether you’re swinging a
sword at a foul beast, attempting to leap across a chasm, or
straining to remember the name of the earl’s second cousin
at a soiree—you’ll attempt a check.

I think all 3 of your hyperbolic examples wouldn't require a roll. Not only is there no doubt for success, there's no benefit for success either. Proper pacing would just be narrative with the results.

i personally liked the extended table in the playtest. the matrix is not explicit, but it's still there between the two tables. Doing the math for you. and me.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
~~~
Mike 86997 ****

Code: Select all

Astrid Gaetki/Cleric2            Shiobhan Mac Lir/Bard2           Paul Meier/Ranger1
Gemma Wintrish/Wizard1
~~
Ragnar/Ftr1-Thf3                 Ursion Thrune/Cleric 14          Serit/Barbarian 11
Parashylara Snowspeaker/Bard 12  Aspexia Blakros/Arcanist 13      Evan Winterburn/Ranger 12  
Akari Yuka/Swashbuckler 9        Vuokko Lumimyrski/Witch 11       Isabeau Gaughan/Paladin 10       
Sofia Cisneros/Cleric 10         Sabriel Stonebrow/CORE Cleric 10 Adrian Delrosa/Wizard 8
Thrain Wolfpelt/CORE Fighter 2   Mitsuzuri Kaeda/Samurai 6        Amestri al-Xemestra/CORE Cleric 2
Berazni Morradi/Psychic 2        Ranna Ingvarsdottir/Bard 10      Jeshki Blackmantle/Arcanist 6
Dagmara Trzetrzelewska/Cleric 4  Yumiko Takada/Slayer 5
(as of 20190927)

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